Backstage Pastors Episode 1: Leading from the Second Chair – A Conversation with Mike Bonem
30th January 2026
Share this Podcast:
About This Podcast:
In this episode of the Backstage Pastors Podcast™️, hosts Phil and Tyler kick off the series by welcoming longtime executive pastor, author, and consultant Mike Bonem. The conversation centers on the origins and evolution of the executive pastor (XP) and second-chair leader role, drawing heavily from Mike’s seminal book Leading from the Second Chair and his more recent work Thriving in the Second Chair.
Mike shares the story behind writing one of the first books focused on second-chair leadership, reflects on how the XP role has changed over the past two decades, and offers practical wisdom for sustaining long-term effectiveness in backstage ministry. The discussion also explores challenges around change management in churches, delegation, metrics, and how second-chair leaders can find encouragement and visible impact even when their work often happens behind the scenes.
Resources Mentioned
Unstuck Event: Church Building Masterclass with Phil Taylor
Leading from the Second Chair by Mike Bonem
Thriving in the Second Chair by Mike Bonem
Leading Congregational Change by Mike Bonem
In Pursuit of Great and Godly Leadership by Mike Bonem
From Our Partners
💻 The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at Thechurchhub.org
Connect with Phil Taylor
✉️ Get Phil's Newsletter
✉️ phil@backstagepastors.org
🗣️ @philtaylorxp
📚 Books by Phil
💻 backstagepastors.org
💻plainjoestudios.com
Connect with Tyler Drewitz
✉️ tyler@myxp.church
🗣️ @tylerdrewitz
💻 myxp.church
💻ridgelineprinting.com
LIKE & SUBSCRIBE
📹 Youtube
🍏 Apple
🎤 Spotify
CHAPTERS
01:40 – Series Overview and Defining the Executive Pastor Role
03:17 – Announcement: Church Building Projects Masterclass
06:24 – Introducing Mike Bonem
08:38 – The Story Behind Leading from the Second Chair
12:38 – Why Thriving in the Second Chair Was Written
14:04 – Extending Your Shelf Life in Ministry
17:00 – Finding Encouragement in Backstage Ministry
24:50 – Why Change Is So Hard in Churches
33:09 – Preparing for the Executive Pastor Role
– –
Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.
Mike shares the story behind writing one of the first books focused on second-chair leadership, reflects on how the XP role has changed over the past two decades, and offers practical wisdom for sustaining long-term effectiveness in backstage ministry. The discussion also explores challenges around change management in churches, delegation, metrics, and how second-chair leaders can find encouragement and visible impact even when their work often happens behind the scenes.
Resources Mentioned
Unstuck Event: Church Building Masterclass with Phil Taylor
Leading from the Second Chair by Mike Bonem
Thriving in the Second Chair by Mike Bonem
Leading Congregational Change by Mike Bonem
In Pursuit of Great and Godly Leadership by Mike Bonem
From Our Partners
💻 The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at Thechurchhub.org
Connect with Phil Taylor
✉️ Get Phil's Newsletter
✉️ phil@backstagepastors.org
🗣️ @philtaylorxp
📚 Books by Phil
💻 backstagepastors.org
💻plainjoestudios.com
Connect with Tyler Drewitz
✉️ tyler@myxp.church
🗣️ @tylerdrewitz
💻 myxp.church
💻ridgelineprinting.com
LIKE & SUBSCRIBE
📹 Youtube
🍏 Apple
🎤 Spotify
CHAPTERS
01:40 – Series Overview and Defining the Executive Pastor Role
03:17 – Announcement: Church Building Projects Masterclass
06:24 – Introducing Mike Bonem
08:38 – The Story Behind Leading from the Second Chair
12:38 – Why Thriving in the Second Chair Was Written
14:04 – Extending Your Shelf Life in Ministry
17:00 – Finding Encouragement in Backstage Ministry
24:50 – Why Change Is So Hard in Churches
33:09 – Preparing for the Executive Pastor Role
– –
Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.
Recent Episodes
16th March 2021
Episode 10: Prioritizing the All Important Work of Thinking With Tim Healy
Tim Healy currently serves as a lecturer in Theology and Ministry at Alphacrucis College in Perth, Western Australia. He has been in full time ministry for 25 years and has pastored two churches: a...
1st February 2021
Episode 9: Intentionally Listening Before You Move Forward With Dave Dummitt
Dave Dummitt is the Senior Pastor at Willow Creek Church in the Chicagoland area. Before serving at Willow, he had founded 2|42 Community Church, which was recognized by Outreach Magazine as one of...
11th January 2021
Episode 8: Soul Care, Reflection and Combatting Consumerism in the Church with Dr. Paul Alexander
Dr. Alexander is the President of Hope International University, a Christian University in Southern California that has been preparing servant leaders since 1928. He talks to us about changes he is...
