Backstage Pastors Episode 7: How to Lead When You’re Not in Charge w/ Clay Scroggins

Phil Taylor interviews Clay Scroggins, former leader at North Point Community Church and author of How to Lead When You’re Not in Charge. Clay shares his journey from engineering student to pastor, his experience serving in multi-site church leadership, and his transition into speaking and consulting.

The conversation centers on leadership without authority—particularly relevant for executive pastors and second-chair leaders. Clay unpacks the myth that leadership requires a title and emphasizes influence as the true currency of leadership. He shares practical examples from both church and corporate environments, highlighting the importance of relational influence, emotional intelligence, and patience.

They also discuss navigating organizational limitations, creating “pockets of greatness,” and leading oneself when broader change isn’t possible. Clay addresses the tension of ambition in ministry, distinguishing between selfish ambition and healthy, God-honoring drive. The episode also explores challenges like leading change in resistant environments, working under well-known leaders like Andy Stanley, and discerning when it’s time to stay or leave a role. The conversation is both practical and deeply reflective, offering encouragement and wisdom for leaders serving behind the scenes.

Resources Mentioned

Guest Mentioned

🗣️Follow Clay – https://www.instagram.com/clayscroggins
📕How to Lead When You’re Not in Charge by Clay Scroggins
💻Website – clayscroggins.com
💻“Should I Stay or Should I Go?” (audio resource by Clay Scroggins)

From Our Partners

💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org

Connect with Phil Taylor

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✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠

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Connect with Tyler Drewitz

✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠

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CHAPTERS

[04:00] Clay’s Ministry Journey

[11:00] The Myth of Leadership Titles

[17:20] Authority vs. Influence

[25:18] Creating a Pocket of Greatness

[29:00] When to Stay or Leave a Role

[33:00] Healthy vs. Unhealthy Ambition

[39:00] Leading Change Without Authority

[43:00] Working Under a High-Profile Leader

[47:00] Final Encouragement & Resources

Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.